Based on how different The Force Awakens is from the Star Wars prequels – both in tone and visual style – it should come as no surprise that creator George Lucas doesn’t particularly care for the latest entry into the saga that he began. Still, to hear him actually say it is another thing.

After Episode VII‘s premiere, at which the most praise you could squeeze out of Lucas was a noncommittal “the fans will love it”, the mercurial filmmaker spoke with more candor in a career-comprehensive 54-minute conversation with Charlie Rose.

The most controversial comments didn’t come until @ the 45-minute mark when Rose finally asked Lucas directly what he thought of the new film directed by J.J. Abrams. Lucas responds with not-so-affectionate comments about the film and Disney (to whom he sold Lucasfilm for $4 billion). He’s since felt compelled to clarify and retract a poor off-the-cuff attempt at humor that equated Disney brass with “white slavers”.

In essence, Lucas would have done things very differently with the new trilogy. Plus, George is still clearly hurt by the fact that Disney and Lucasfilm took the detailed outlines he wrote for Episodes VII, VIII & IX and promptly discarded them.

While the juicy parts of the interview are in the last 9 minutes, it’s worth a full listen for anyone who appreciates what Lucas has given to our culture…even if he is a bit petulant and bitter about how the world loves the direction that Star Wars is taking without him.